Tom formerly Tofurky

https://hurstathletics.com/sports/wrestling/roster/coaches/mike-wehler/2762

Mike wrestled for Lock Haven back in the day. He's a well respected guy in the sport and is able to coach student-athletes beyond D2.

I hope it works for them. Mike Wehler seems like a really good dude. However, with them being a Catholic University, what is the cost for a school to move from Division II to Division I? Mercyhurst has an enrollment of somewhere between 2,500 to 4,500 (the data isn't clear), and with an all-in cost of just south of $60,000 a year (this year), and an endowment of around $40 million, they may have to look at "trimming the fat."

Dillon's high school coach may have had some sway there, but I cannot confirm that. Certainly when Fitzgerald was relieved of his duties at NU, the Johnsons weren't waiting around to find out who was going to replace him, as his football career is very important to him.

My reply wasn't to you.

I forget hot to do the multiple quote box reply thing, so I'll do my best to reply to what seems appropriate. Your initial message was very narrow and mentioned "Top 25" guys only. In my mind, since we aren't talking about PSU in this case, since they are head and shoulders above everyone else at this time, I don't think Top 25 is the lone measuring stick to success, as you point out in your first numbered point. As we know, rankings are subjective. Maybe T&T&Co. are homing in on the kids who have proverbial chips on their shoulders and telling them that they are better than some goofball's pretend number assigned to them on some goofy ranking/recruiting service. Remember, these are guys who wrestled angry, so they know those kids and just how to work with them. I agree with point two. I'd say that they do it even better than PSU does. That being said, here we are discussing anyone who is not in the top 25. Speaking for myself alone, I believe that number is far too narrow as an indicator of success. Does it help? Of course it does. Is it the be all end all of recruiting? Not at all. Number three applies to every coach in the country who struggles to fill a weight class. Along with that, we don't always know why said kid went said place out of high school. Of the list of names you made above who transferred into Iowa from other universities, I do know the "inside scoop" on two of them and why they didn't go to Iowa out of the gates. It wasn't the coaching, but the financial support available to them at those times. Again, your assertion that anyone outside of the Top 25 is "second tier" rubs me the wrong way. We're talking about kids here who peak at all different ages. I'll push back on your "top three" assertion. PSU, that's a no brainer. Neither Ohio State nor Oklahoma State have finished ahead of Iowa at Nationals since before COVID. That was more than five years ago now. I'm not sure how they fall into the "top three" when Iowa is the second most consistent team in the country behind Cael & Company. To your last paragraph: Iowa State had the greatest college wrestler and 2004 olympic champion on staff. They were a top 10 team nationally, with two runner-up finishes in the previous five seasons. They were viable. To Zalesky, he is not the most boisterous outgoing guy who was going to grab you and say, "let's work on this." He probably resembled someone's dad, where T&T were the uncles who still had some pep to them. In short, Zalesky was "long in the tooth" and his personality didn't lend to the Gable/Iowa "style". There's a reason that Tom got the job after that, because he has that. Finally, similar to what you mentioned about Iowa State and their #1 recruiting class (again, look who was in the room and on a Wheaties box), Iowa was never built from in-state talent alone. Some of the greatest Hawkeyes ever have been from New York, New Jersey, Maryland, Illinois, South Dakota, Michigan, etc. I don't know that the administration put a lot of weight into where kids come from, and that they fully understand that PSU is an absolute monster these days with more resources than anyone else. I appreciate the discussion and your well-thought out insights. I still feel strongly that Iowa is a firm #2 team in all of NCAA wrestling, and this is coming from an Oklahoma State and Lehigh fan. #SaveTomBrandsJob

I don't know how to edit this, so... "Not one of those teams you mentioned consistenly has finished in the top five of the team race since 2013, but Iowa has every single year. By the numbers, Cornell is closest, then Michigan since Bormet was elevated to Head Coach."

When did this thread become about recruiting high school kids as THE measure of success? To ignore the following finishes at Nationals for Iowa from 2013 to 2024 is absolutely ludicrous. Iowa: 4, 4, 2, 5, 4, 3, 4, COVID, 1, 3, 2, 5 Since you mentioned them, here are how those other teams have finished at Nationals in that same time frame: Ohio State: 6, 6, 1, 3, 2, 2, 2, COVID, 9, 13, 4, 8 Oklahoma State: 2, 3, 7, 2, 3, 13, 3, COVID, 3, 14, 18, 10 Minnesota: 3, 2, 8, 17, 7, 17, 8, COVID, 7, 11, 15, 22 Cornell: 5, 7, 5, 7, 8, 7, 7, COVID, DNC, 7, 3, 2 Michigan: 33, 17, 11, 9, 10, 4, 5, COVID, 5, 2, 6, 3 Nebraska: 13, 11, 9, 8, 9, 9, 10, COVID, 12, 5, 8, 9 Virginia Tech: 10, 8, 10, 4, 6, 8, 11, COVID, 14, 8, 9, 7 NC State: 22, 19, 16, 11, 17, 4, 17, COVID, 6, 10, 10, 11 Not one of those teams you mentioned has finished in the top five of the team race since 2013, but Iowa has every single year. This thread is not about how well Tom Brands recruits blue chip high school kids, but whether or not he should be replaced as head coach based on the actual results of the wrestlers he has on the University of Iowa roster. I argue that, based on those real results as seen above, Tom Brands is the second to best coach in NCAA Division I in the Cael/PSU-era. For my money is there is Cael, then there is Brands (MAYBE Grey and Bormet), and then there is everyone else.

I would stop at saying that it doesn't appeal to recruits. In his 18 years as head coach (not including the COVID year where no one competed), Tom Brands routinely recruits among the best guys in the country and his teams have finished in the top five 16 times. Hell, he recruited one of the best high school wrestlers of all times and him and his staff developed him into a three-time National Champion. The Hawkeyes never suffer for numbers and their second tier guys would be starters at 75-80% of other Division I programs. To address the "authoritarians not innovators" comment, I wonder if it's more appropriate to say "brawlers versus dancers." One is very brutal and harsh, where the other is more elegant and graceful. I don't know... That said, the old Iowa style I grew up with is not my style, but I also love what Iowa brings to the wrestling world.

Casey Cunningham

I would guess that with Howe and Kennedy long gone by now, all their best talent having left the university, and an absolutely dismal 2023-24, Storniolo at Northwestern might be feeling some heat.

I have to wonder if there are two things at play here: 1. Tom Brands' expectations.. 2. Beth Goetz's (Iowa Director of Athletics) expectations On the one hand, this has to feel like another miserable failure to Tom Brands. Only one guy in the finals, only four All-Americans, finishing "a lowly" fifth in the team standings, one spot/1.5 points behind Iowa State, and 105.5 points out of first... One the other hand, Beth Goetz may see it as a top five team finish (one finals win away from being tied for third), nine National Qualifiers, a National finalist (on ESPN) and four All-Americans. She may also see/understand that Brands' teams have never finished in less than eighth place (2007, his first season as head coach was when they finished there), and in 18 seasons the Hawkeyes have brought the University 14 team trophies, including winning four team titles. Other than Sanderson, there isn't a single other coach in NCAA Division I wrestling with that consistency in the last two decades. All the while, Brands' teams keep generating a TON of press (eyes on the U), continue to sell out dual meets and the donations to the program keep rolling in the door. Men's Wrestling is easily the gold standard of athletics programs on their campus, and rightfully so. If I had to guess (and this is just a guess), Tom Brands' job is probably pretty secure at this point.

I didn't say they did. I said that I guess that they will, but sometime in the future. I have no inside knowledge about the program or money raised. The excitement surrounding the program appears to be a main driver towards the success everyone hopes they attain.

This cannot be stated enough and is a major part of the model that NWCA pushes out to new and existing coaches via their Convention and CEO Leadership Academy. Koll is tight with Moyer and is the guest speaker when it comes to raising money for programs.

If he learned nothing about fundraising from Rob Koll, then TSU hired the wrong guy. My guess is that they meet their goal... I just hope it doesn't become a moving goal post in the meantime.

There may be some of that at various places, but the word around town with a lot of recruits about being admissible to the college(s) of your choice and earning academic money to help yourself has sunk in for a lot of guys this past decade.

D3 Elmhurst College had some success in the mid-2010s with three former D1 guys. One of them upset the #1 seed at D1 Nationals a few years before landing at EC, while another was a top-five recruit nationally coming out of high school and made the blood round in D1s for a small school in Stillwater, Oklahoma.

Don't forget that D2 William Jewell College in suburban Kansas City, MO "paused" their men's program this past September, with their team on campus, and only three years after they brought it back from the proverbial grave. Most private schools are struggling financially, especially those tied to religions. Donors are aging and dying, fewer younger folks are attending said schools for religious pursuits, and tuition costs are spiraling out of control. The second "enrollment cliff" is predicted to hit again within the next five years, and you'll see a lot of these small schools either cutting budgets to the bone via eliminating programs or closing all together.

Tone deaf

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/lindenwood-to-make-sweeping-cuts-in-athletics-eliminating-10-programs/article_fb606a9e-9092-11ee-beaf-ff06f7dd0d01.html Sad

Smaller religiously-affiliated IHL (D1 and otherwise) offer athletics to grow enrollment. Sacred Heart, a Catholic university, is no exception. Hiring lay people (non-religious professionals who are usually funded by their orders, but are in short order anymore) is very expensive. At $66,910 this year alone for cost of attendance, SHU needs numbers, as that cost is a direct reflection of operating budgets across campus. SHU will never care about athletic success. Providing 50-plus "D1" opportunities to wrestlers who seek that, and who are willing to pay for that privilege, is what they seek.

They had Indiana native Jason Tsirtsis on staff for a bit. I think he fit the bill, yeah?

Old news, but I haven't been on in a while. Some recent non-D1s who could have (and did) compete fairly well against D1s: Nick Becker - UW-Parkside Joe Rau - Elmhurst College Ryan Prater - Elmhurst College Brandon Reed - Lindsey Wilson University Jason Shinoster - UW - Whitewater There are more, but I am in a time crunch.

I mean, I SEE it, but c'mon...